Episode 6: Matthew Posner, Puppetry

[00:00:02] Speaker A: Hey everybody, welcome to go to your room and make stuff, the podcast about making art, any kind of art, all by ourselves, in a room or a studio, maybe outside. No one is telling us when, where, or how, or any combination of those things. This is a podcast for solo artistic adventurers. Those who are doing it and those who want to try it, support ideas and just plain fun. Hey, today I want to introduce Matthew Posner, who makes puppets as part of his job. In fact, if you're watching the video version, the two puppets behind me, one is green, the other one is more human esque looking. Those are both Shauna Muppets were created by Matthew Posner, and you'll get a chance to see a few of his puppets if you're watching the podcast. Otherwise, go to his website and check out the stuff he does. A little bit about Matthew a professional stage actor for over 20 years, Matthew is a graduate of Plymouth State University in New Hampshire. He did a national tour of Camelot. Settled in Seattle in 2007. He's a regular on stage at the Fifth Avenue and Village theaters, and his most recent production was beautiful, the Carole King musical she saw. He's also done she loves me, Matilda and into the woods. As a voiceover artist, Matthew lends his voice to a variety of audios, college level curriculum books for psychology, child development, sociology, some novels like the global divide, video games, including several characters in the heroes of new Earth games, Warhammer, Forty K, and the voice of Atlas Finch from the Atlas Missions, a popular mobile learning game. Matthew is also the voice of Lionstein, a reoccurring character in pre K YouTube series Bubble and friends, Bubbles and friends. And as a puppeteer, Matthew has created and directed his own local concept production of Avenue Q. He's also created custom puppets for a variety of customers around the world, and his puppets have been featured at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and also with the Seattle men's chorus. So with that, let's talk with Matthew Posner. So, Matthew, thank you so much for joining me on this podcast. Go to your room and make stuff. And I have to say, you were one of the absolute first people that I was like, I have to interview and I have to talk to, because when I set my new room up upstairs, I got to put, I call them the girls. The girls got their own place of honor and actually bought a table for them. I was going to put the piano there, and then I was like, no, no, no. My puppets have to go there. So I went and bought the table. So my husband was like, oh, I can make a different stand. I'm like, no, no, no, no. They have to stand just the way they are. So anyway, before I keep talking about this, before we do this video, I will also put pictures up. So everyone at this point now they've met you, the two puppets that you created for me during the pandemic, right? [00:02:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:02:57] Speaker A: Cause and I'm trying to think how it all happened. My heart tried to explode. I survived. I decided to write a show about it. And I think. David Coke. No, it wasn't even that. We threw the puppets in later. I think I had this. This cool idea with voiceover that I would have these cool, like, muppet type images in my branding. This is back, like, 2018, 2019. And so I end up making puppets based on the branding. But then it gets even weirder. Cause we're like, we should put the puppets in the play. And so I ended up performing with them. It was very serendipitous how it all just came together. [00:03:33] Speaker B: You know, it just warms my heart so much to not only know that. Not only that you love them, but obviously what they have been used for, because, I mean, in essence, that's one of the things that I started creating puppets for in the first place, was for new ways of thinking about how to do shows and reintroduce this kind of puppetry back into the world. That's not necessarily the Muppets, per se. [00:04:02] Speaker A: I have to say, I am a pretty big, hardcore Muppet fan. I wanted to meet Jim Henson when I was. I was devastated when he died when I was 16, because I wanted to go to New York and I wanted to work with Jim Henson because it's not like I couldn't have pursued puppetry. But the whole point was, I was like, I want to work with Jim Henson. And when he died, I remember I just. It's something that did not continue to pursue it. And yet it's so amazing how they have threaded through my entire life. And then when I. When I was. Had all this stuff happen, a lot of stuff, like the Fraggles became very important to me. [00:04:42] Speaker B: Fraggles were my first introduction. [00:04:44] Speaker A: See, you're younger than I am. That's why. [00:04:47] Speaker B: And, you know, I didn't. [00:04:48] Speaker A: Well, I was born in 74, but I do have fraggles in my studio. [00:04:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I have an unfinished fraggle right next to me that I just haven't put back together yet. Where is he? No. [00:05:00] Speaker A: Have you ever met Coleman Townsend? Have you talked to any of the voice actors from the fraggle? [00:05:04] Speaker B: No. But don't we have here in the Seattle area, isn't the original red Fraggle somewhere local? [00:05:10] Speaker A: It's possible, I believe. [00:05:11] Speaker B: My friend Sam says that he knows the original red Fraggle who lives here in Seattle. [00:05:16] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. I know. I know. So. So tell me. Tell me how, like, oh, here we go. Before we dive into details, let me know you a little bit better. Like, can you share a fun or unique fact about yourself that listeners might not be aware of? Tell us more about what you do. Like, when you go to your room to make stuff, what do you make, and where do you make it? [00:05:35] Speaker B: Oh, okay. Well, first of all, as you can see behind me, you can see some of my most recent and favorite creations right behind me. The fun thing that you might not know based on, I want to say, the creations that I've made so far, including the two that I've made for you, the girls, I only just got into puppetry about six years ago, actually creating them, that is. I mean, I've always been a fan, just like yourself, just with Fraggles, Jim Henson, every. Everything up until that point. But it wasn't until just before the pandemic that I finally said, you know what? This is something that I want to start doing. I want to start doing this for myself, because I've always wanted to. And let's do it. So. And you can see that obviously, I have a knack for it, or. I like to think so. [00:06:26] Speaker A: Oh, they look good. Yeah. [00:06:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:06:27] Speaker A: I mean, they're well built. Mine are in great shape upstairs too. Yes. [00:06:31] Speaker B: This one right here is my original concept for Cape Monster in Avenue. [00:06:35] Speaker A: Avenue Q, which is my favorite musical ever. [00:06:38] Speaker B: I know. And my lovely wife actually was my cape monster for the production that I directed. And don't start thinking anything. She earned that role. It was not any kind of nepotism whatsoever. Nepotism is only for people who suck. [00:06:53] Speaker A: Best song ever. Find. Find line. If you haven't heard it, go download. Avenue Q, followed by the Internet is for porn. So just make sure, and you can be as loud as the hell you want when you're making love. This is a really important musical for everyone went to see. There are puppets on stage having sex. Anyway, I saw it in Vegas. [00:07:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:07:12] Speaker A: And I would love to go tour it someday. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Yes, on Broadway. Yeah, I know. [00:07:18] Speaker A: You're right. [00:07:19] Speaker B: So this one right here, this is my Tevye prototype. [00:07:23] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:24] Speaker B: Yeah. Because in the idea of the long. I'm going to move on to the next one. This guy right here, this is my beholder. His name is Coronis. [00:07:31] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:32] Speaker B: And beholders are iconic for dungeons and dragons, and this was the creation that I made for Emerald City Comic con this year that got everybody to turn their heads. When I approached members of critical role. [00:07:44] Speaker A: I mean, oh, yeah, they were all here this year. I didn't get to go to that panel. But you were there, weren't you, with the puppets? [00:07:48] Speaker B: I was, and it was awesome. It was fantastic. And when members of critical role said, can I pet him? [00:07:56] Speaker A: And I was like, oh, I'm sure they wanted to. [00:07:57] Speaker B: Absolutely. So that beside the point going into another story. So, tevye, here is one of the main reasons why I got into puppetry in the first place. So I'm sure, maybe, having done shows in the past, you may have done this just in general. If you've ever sat down with friends and thought, I'm doing a show, how would you cast this with the Muppets? How would you recast this show with the Muppets? And, you know, who would. Who would be an actual muppet character, and who would be that one human starring role? [00:08:28] Speaker A: You got to put the cameos. The human cameos. The Steve Martins. Okay. [00:08:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:08:31] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:31] Speaker B: So, in particular, there was this one summer, my first summer of summer stock musicals after my freshman year of college. [00:08:40] Speaker A: And you survived it. Congratulations. Yeah, me too. [00:08:43] Speaker B: It was a great summer. I was doing a production of Fiddler on the roof, and I was playing this game with some of my friends who were there, and I thought, gosh, wouldn't it be funny to hear Fozzie bear doing if I were a rich bear? Waka, waka, waka, waka, waka, waka, waka. But, of course, you would never get the muppets to do something like Fiddler on the roof, as amazing as that would be. But I thought, you know what? This is still something that should be done. So why don't we just do Fiddler on the roof with puppets? Well, who would we get to make the puppets? Screw it. I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. So I started learning for myself. You know, that was the game that I used to play, and this wasn't all the way back then. This was six years ago. I was doing a. A new production at village theater, and I was happened to be staying with Bobbi Katula, who's amazing. [00:09:32] Speaker A: I love Bobby. [00:09:34] Speaker B: I know. She's absolutely amazing. And I just started researching, and I found this puppeteer online who anybody who wants to get into it and start learning should do so. And I have credited him on multiple occasions, the man's name is Adam Krutenger. [00:09:52] Speaker A: Adam Krutenger. We can find him on all the Internets. I'll put it in links. Anyone who logs in later, I'll put in links. [00:09:58] Speaker B: Yeah, Adam Krudinger. And, you know, give him all the love that you can, because he's also going through some. Some brain cancer scenario that. [00:10:06] Speaker A: Okay. [00:10:07] Speaker B: Yeah. But he's absolutely fantastic. He taught me everything that I know, along with many other puppeteers that are out there, starting to kind of create my own style. But that is the one that I based everything off of is his YouTube series, which pretty much teaches you how. And here I am now with. With a business six years later. My business is hand to mouth creative. And although I don't have a website, just in general, but that is. My Instagram handle is hand to mouth creative. My voiceover stuff is also attached to that as well. But that's where I got it, starting with Fiddler on the roof, and now I have my Tevye prototype. I just need to find a theater who's willing to take the idea. [00:10:47] Speaker A: Well, you just have to raise a lot of money and do it yourself. [00:10:50] Speaker B: Sure. [00:10:51] Speaker A: I've done it. I took a story about my heart exploding and put that puppy on stage. Yeah, it can be expensive, but, no, the fact that you have all that to pull from. [00:11:01] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Have you had a job fundraising yet? You were living with Bobby Cthulhu. That's always a good start. [00:11:08] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, I haven't had any. Any opportunities to really fundraise yet. I've had. I've had meetings with people in high authority. I've. I've spoken with both the associate and artistic directors at village theatre. Even if it's not to get this production onto the stage, it's at least to talk about how I should go about doing it. [00:11:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Good, good, good. You and I, later, we'll get together for coffee or drinks, whatever, and I will let you know. My knowledge of raising money for 15 years is the only reason I got my show off the ground is I knew how to do it. [00:11:42] Speaker B: Fantastic. [00:11:43] Speaker A: It's not too hard, but, dude, you made the puppets, which is it? [00:11:47] Speaker B: Right? [00:11:47] Speaker A: Germ stuff. That's cool. And I want to now. Now I want to make puppets very badly. So I'll be all over that YouTube site. [00:11:54] Speaker B: We can get the kids involved, too. You know, I'll come in, we'll do some hands on stuff. [00:11:57] Speaker A: That's awesome. Okay, so. Okay, I know you have multiple mediums, so you make puppets. You do voiceover, musical, I'm assuming musical theater as well. [00:12:07] Speaker B: Musical theater, those have all been, I. [00:12:10] Speaker A: Mean, director, actor, what else? [00:12:13] Speaker B: No, musical theater director, actor, voiceover artist, puppeteer. [00:12:19] Speaker A: That's good. That's awesome. [00:12:21] Speaker B: Avid video game fan and Monty Python encyclopedia. [00:12:25] Speaker A: And do you play D and d? [00:12:26] Speaker B: Oh, yes. [00:12:27] Speaker A: Okay. So right there. Yeah. All the things, those are all the things I think are also cool. So. And, and you have a padded room to talk in. Yeah. So if you have multiple mediums, do you have a favorite and does that work seek you out or do you go find it? [00:12:44] Speaker B: All of the above. [00:12:45] Speaker A: Okay. [00:12:46] Speaker B: I mean, I think that's one of the things that got me that let me know, theatrically speaking, that this was going to be my life. Because when you go beyond what education is willing to offer you, you're like, I need more of this. I need to find more of this. That's when you know, this is what you want. [00:13:03] Speaker A: Yeah. This podcast is brought to you by the Seattle Voice Academy, and your host runs the podcast and the Seattle Voice Academy. This online voice school specializes in vocal health, singing, voiceover and public speaking. Come check us out. Seattlevoiceacademy.com dot. [00:13:21] Speaker B: You know. Cause when I did my first community theater show outside of high school, I was like, okay, my theater program is great, but I need more. You find all of that stuff for yourself. And then when you have friends who play dungeons and dragons, but it's like, mmm, it's not enough. I've got all these characters that I want to get off paper and start using them, you find more. [00:13:41] Speaker A: Right? [00:13:41] Speaker B: And when watching puppets on the screen isn't enough, you need more. And when making funny voices and entertaining your friends isn't enough, you want more, right? So that's. [00:13:55] Speaker A: I mean, how'd you get into voiceover? What's your, what's your voiceover story? [00:13:59] Speaker B: Voiceover story is, I mean, just, just like the puppet stuff, it's, it was a passion for a long time, and it was always something that I wanted to do. I just didn't have the push. And I will say that it was a failed relationship that made me rethink certain aspects of my life and start to seek out one of those passions again. And I finally invested in a good quality microphone and a quixel and a pseudo setup. I mean, my first two weeks of recording anything, and I had work within the first week. I had worked with them the first week. Yes, it was for the air quality Wallaby with my australian accent. [00:14:43] Speaker A: At least it wasn't a nine hour audiobook. That was my mistake. [00:14:45] Speaker B: No, those came later. [00:14:47] Speaker A: Great. [00:14:48] Speaker B: But my first gigs were with my pop filter attached to my kitchen table and me literally holding the microphone behind it. But you got to start somewhere. You got to start somewhere. [00:15:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Yep. [00:15:03] Speaker B: And things quickly took off. But I found a niche for myself in a lot of character work, audiobooks and elearning courses. I was not, or I still don't feel that I am, but it depends on the producer. I was not very good at advertising in promos, and that's because promo requires training. Yeah, my voice sounds too salesman like and maybe just my opinion, but a lot of ads and promos want that kind of. [00:15:37] Speaker A: There's a styles all over the place right now, but yeah, the national tv style is they want it non announcery. [00:15:42] Speaker B: Yeah, non announcery. [00:15:44] Speaker A: Sound like you're talking to a friend. [00:15:45] Speaker B: Across the table over a cup of coffee. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Except all the local commercials are exactly your voice. They're the warm and friendly bananas. $0.49 Fred Meyer. That's totally still in because that's what. [00:15:55] Speaker B: They end up going with. [00:15:56] Speaker A: That's right. [00:15:56] Speaker B: And find what they want. [00:15:58] Speaker A: That's right. If you were just dying to do commercials, all you'd have to do is practice your real person and then you'll get directed into the warm and friendly. [00:16:06] Speaker B: Read and, you know, you would have thought that I would have been doing, you know, used car sales forever at this point, but no, never booked an actual car ad. [00:16:16] Speaker A: Sweet. What does, what is a recent, what does a day look like for you? [00:16:22] Speaker B: Well, right now a day looks like for me is getting up at 06:00 a.m. and then going to the yard in Georgetown and picking up my bus because I do these show me Seattle tours. I am the singing tour guide. I do three hour city tours for mostly post cruise people who are getting off of cruise lines, say carnival Cruise or Norwegian, something like that. I pick them up and before their flights I take them on a tour of the city. I sing to them, I serenade them, history of Seattle and all of the various iconic locations. And then I dropped them off at the airport bags and all that is the new main source of income. And that's because, personal note, my wife and I are trying to start a family and contract work isn't doing it anymore. [00:17:15] Speaker A: I mean, I got you. [00:17:17] Speaker B: I would have loved to have continued to do contract to contract voiceover work. [00:17:22] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:22] Speaker B: Gig, gig, gig. Right. [00:17:24] Speaker A: You just don't know. You don't know what's going to happen. It fluctuates so much. [00:17:27] Speaker B: You just don't know. And for me in particular, when the pandemic hits, I mean, I'm sure you experienced a certain amount of this as well. Every actor who couldn't be on stage decided to put themselves in front of a microphone and charge peanuts. So folks like ourselves, who have been doing it for a long time and knew what we were worth, were kind of being shoved out of the way for the people who were, you know, not charging as much. That's how I felt, at least. So the market got very saturated, and I was starting to find another venue. [00:17:58] Speaker A: Right. Other things you could do. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:18:00] Speaker B: And that. These guys are what got me through the pandemic. [00:18:03] Speaker A: Yeah. Cool. Um, do you have any recent projects, things that are. Have just happened? [00:18:11] Speaker B: Ooh. Okay, so I actually have three puppets that I am contracted to make. One of them is a longstanding birthday present that I've owed to a friend for quite some time. Another one is actually from my brother in law, who commissioned me to make a likeness of him holding a guitar and everything. Yeah. What was the third one? I don't remember what the third one is. [00:18:35] Speaker A: When's it due? As long as it's not due tomorrow, you're fine. [00:18:39] Speaker B: The puppets are not due tomorrow. Oh. I just got booked for an educational program with youth theater northwest. That'll be. Yeah, that'll be their winter session. But I do have to make some puppets to start working with the little kids with. [00:18:51] Speaker A: So that's what age group? [00:18:52] Speaker B: Third through 8th grade. [00:18:55] Speaker A: They're. They're real cute till 7th grade, but if they're in a mixed like bag like that, you'll be fine. The middle schoolers. Yeah. [00:19:00] Speaker B: I just finished up working on a set of Audrey two's. [00:19:06] Speaker A: Oh, cool. [00:19:07] Speaker B: Little shop of horrors. Audrey. Audrey two. You know, the man eating plant. Any. Any stage production? There are four phases. Four phases. There's the little. There's the little potted plants that just wilts slightly. [00:19:20] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:20] Speaker B: The next step up, is it talking, full on talking hand puppet. You know, that, you know, ends up sucking on Seymour's fingers for little drops of blood. Phase three is just big enough to start eating human flesh, and that's why they have to chop up the dentist and feed that way. And this phase four is literally human sized. A human has to fit inside of it. My friend Eric, who owns a, owns a construction and scenic design studio down in Spanaway, he hired me to come in because he's never worked with puppets before, and he got my name from another guy and said, hey, come and help me. With this, because I have no idea what I'm doing. And I was like, okay, can you send me pictures so I know what I'm getting into? And he didn't send me the pictures. And when I got there, bless his heart, this Audrey two, particularly the phase four, the biggest size, so disheveled and disintegrating from the inside out and falling apart. And he already has a client that he's trying to rent it out to. He's like, I just needed to be able to work for this client. And I was like, okay. So I started to get to work with, trying to repair some of the foam and taking off some of the. The excess fabric that wasn't that. That was falling apart and needed to be applied and other mouth inserts. And overall, the biggest problem was that the skeletal structure was too heavy, made out of wood and pieces. Yeah, it was overbuilt, and I don't know how a high schooler was going to be able to handle this thing. So we, we did a little bit of research, and we found a couple of other Audrey two's online that's that use kind of like a pivot point. There's a mast on the inside of it and kind of like a ball bearing situation at the top. So I was like, here, let's try this if we need to be able to make it work. So, in essence, this is an Audrey two, where the puppeteer isn't inside of the plant. He's on the outside of the plant functioning it from the back, almost like a lever. [00:21:16] Speaker A: Wow. Okay. [00:21:17] Speaker B: Yeah. And that was the best way that we could figure out in order to get it to work. And, you know, we were successful. It absolutely worked. And the high school is using it right now, and he's like, all right, great. So when this is done, I'm gonna need your help to kind of rebuild this thing. From the very beginning, I was like, great. If I've got the time. [00:21:34] Speaker A: Absolutely. [00:21:35] Speaker B: More than happy to. [00:21:37] Speaker A: Sweet. [00:21:38] Speaker B: Yeah. That was the most recent project that I had. [00:21:40] Speaker A: Has anyone ever said exactly the right thing to get you where you are today? [00:21:44] Speaker B: Oh, um, I mean, my high school music and my high school director. [00:21:49] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:50] Speaker B: Is one of my heroes. He was a great guy, and I think he was the first person to say this to me, and I'm not sure if it was coined by anybody else, but it's been one of my longstanding philosophy all the way through, is there is no substitute for experience. [00:22:07] Speaker A: I love that. [00:22:08] Speaker B: Yeah, no substitute for experience. [00:22:10] Speaker A: You just have to do it. You just get better doing it. [00:22:14] Speaker B: Yeah, exactly that. I mean, because you can, you can go to as much studio training as you want. You can get in front of a teacher and work, work the technique. But until you put it into practice, because theater, theater and all of these, these performance arts that we have, it is applied knowledge. It is. You have to do it. You have to be doing it well. [00:22:33] Speaker A: You have to be. You have to continue doing it. [00:22:35] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:36] Speaker A: And you also have to continue sharpening because it can go backwards too. [00:22:41] Speaker B: It absolutely can. I mean, I felt, I felt my first musical back after the pandemic. I was terrified because I felt like I had let my, my muscles go because I wasn't singing as much when. [00:22:53] Speaker A: I got on stage after. I know I'm on beta blockers and the drugs, it's amazing. But after I got on stage with the heart thing, I was like, huh, huh, wonder how that's gonna feel. But I was so determined to go to Edinburgh and do it there. I was like, it's gonna be fine. It was also only 45 minutes, but it was just me. And so exhausting solo show, because if you're doing, you know, something with other people, other actors on stage, you're hopefully going on and off. You're not, you know, unless you're Hamlet, in which case all 3 hours is all you. One thing I did notice, man, I had to do so much good rehearsal, and this camera will catch it, capture it. But I had to get my arm in just the right place, man. And of course, I'm on state. It's Avenue Q style, so it's not like I could brace like they do for tv, right? [00:23:41] Speaker B: Yep. [00:23:42] Speaker A: But getting a staying on the mic because. And having the puppet. And so it was fun. But yeah, actually, arm exhaustion rehearsals, if you want. [00:23:54] Speaker B: If you want a great example. You know, I've never seen any of the backstage stuff, but a great comedian and puppeteer to watch. If you've ever seen Randy felt face. [00:24:04] Speaker A: Okay, I have. [00:24:04] Speaker B: Holy moly. Randy felt face is fantastic. And his technique is amazing. Now, his puppet. His puppet is specifically designed in a particular kind of way to make him a little bit more mobile and flamboyant. If you look closely, the hinges that are in the palms, and I'm almost certain that the rods that he has, have actual rings on them, things he can manipulate, he can connect into them quicker. [00:24:28] Speaker A: Right. [00:24:29] Speaker B: It's absolutely fascinating, but he is a phenomenal puppeteer. [00:24:32] Speaker A: I will tell you, the puppet got the best reviews, just so you know. No, seriously, your puppet was reviewed in the Scotsman which is the big newspaper in Scotland. [00:24:42] Speaker B: Holy moly. [00:24:43] Speaker A: I'll send you that too. [00:24:44] Speaker B: Yes. [00:24:45] Speaker A: It was something like, I can't remember exactly. I remember what it says, but it's like, particular attention must be paid to the puppet scene, which, of course, was the only thing. What I also would tell people at the end as they were leaving. I'm like, the whole story is completely true, except for that muppet part. I might have made some of that part up. [00:25:05] Speaker B: That's, that's, that's almost. I mean, I'm, I'm slightly overwhelmed by that. Almost, almost two. Nothing, nothing beats a puppet that I made for the Seattle men's chorus that was featured in their, their holiday performance over the pandemic. You know, it was all, it was all zoom and video related. It was great. His name is Holiday Harold. [00:25:30] Speaker A: Okay. [00:25:31] Speaker B: Big green monster puppet. Glasses. Kind of looks like a green version. Green monster version of Santa Claus. He was amazing, but I made him all while I was staying with my parents at the time because I got kicked out of my apartment, because they're like, oh, it's a pandemic. We're moving kind of thing. [00:25:46] Speaker A: Right? [00:25:48] Speaker B: And my dad, when we were watching the performance and my puppet came on the screen, my dad started weeping. [00:25:57] Speaker A: Oh, right. [00:25:59] Speaker B: It's, it's, um. Hmm. [00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You know, puppets matter, I think. I think, oh, I mean, art matters too, but, I mean, there's something for me, and I think it might be all, it might be all puppets, because I am, I am absolutely fascinated by kabuki. I, in any of the. No puppetry, the stuff from Japan. I mean, this is stuff I've loved. Shadow puppets. Well, I've been fascinated my whole life. [00:26:24] Speaker B: Puppets in general are a form of amazing performance in therapy. [00:26:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:26:31] Speaker B: They provide a shield, a shield for performers versus the audience. And they're particularly good for kids because the puppet becomes the embodiment of your most extreme emotions. The puppet can be mad. The puppet can be sad. The puppet can be elated and crazy and happy in ways that the human may feel uncomfortable being. The puppet hides that barrier between them and the audience, and they can really be themselves and expressive. And then it's just a matter of removing the puppet and letting them be that as well. But it's a great gateway for them to do that. [00:27:13] Speaker A: Man, that is so cool. On a bad or discouraging day, you just don't want to work, or you just don't feel like it. [00:27:22] Speaker B: What do you do in order to force myself to work? [00:27:25] Speaker A: I don't know. I guess that question could be looked at a couple different ways. If you have a deadline coming or there's no deadline, have the whole day, and you're like, oh, I should go do voiceover auditions. Oh, I should work on a puppet. [00:27:42] Speaker B: Mm hmm. [00:27:44] Speaker A: When the sun is shining in Seattle. [00:27:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. That happens 75% of the year. It doesn't. [00:27:50] Speaker A: I know. [00:27:51] Speaker B: Oh, gosh. I am not a person who procrastinates. I used to be. I used to be a lot, but I'm a person who, if something can be done now, I will do it. Now, if my wife asks me, hey, would you mind doing this? I will stop what I'm doing and go do it, because if I don't, I'll either forget or, you know, something else will get in the way, and then I'll. She'll either be mad at me or I'll be mad at myself for not having done it when she asked me to do it. So if I have a deadline or if I have something that I could be or should be working on, I try to get to it as soon as possible. I mean, I will have. I will have my coffee in the morning. I will play my little mobile video game for a little while. I will wake myself up because I am useless for the first hour of the day. The gears start turning. I'm not a roll right out of bed and do it. [00:28:41] Speaker A: Can't do it. Me either. [00:28:43] Speaker B: But as soon as I get that push, I will start working. [00:28:49] Speaker A: So on the flip side of that, are you good at boundaries? Are you good at being able to stop? [00:28:55] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I have no. I no problem setting myself, like, a time limit of some kind or a goal that says, all right, I have to have this stitched up by dot, dot, dot time, or I have to have this many. This many auditions done, or I have to have these many pages recorded by dot dot, dot time. [00:29:15] Speaker A: That's right. You've done audiobooks. That's right. You've done audiobooks. That's a skill you learn doing audiobooks. [00:29:23] Speaker B: Oh, no, you're union. I can't use you. I'm sorry. [00:29:26] Speaker A: No, you can use it, and you can say it. I'll cut that part out, too. But, no, I'm non union. You're good. [00:29:31] Speaker B: Oh, are you? [00:29:32] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:29:33] Speaker B: I actually have a project from a previous client who I did an audiobook for. The audiobook is called Global Divide Ryu Rising, and it was supposed to be three volumes. I loved doing that project because he let me. He let me do so much stuff I even started adding in sound effects as gotcha. It's almost more like an audio drama, an audio drama, than it is reading the audiobook. It's really, really good, and it's based on a very manga style kind of thing. He came back to me and said, hey, we're not doing the next couple of volumes of global divide because I didn't have time. But I've got these three other audiobooks that I was doing that are a little bit more dramatic, almost romance novelty. And I also have a friend associated with Netflix who says if the audiobooks go well, we may turn it into an animated series. [00:30:23] Speaker A: Wow. Cool. [00:30:25] Speaker B: But he put me in charge. He made me the vocal director on it, and I get to bring in all of my friends who I want to cast, and all of those people will get contractually transferred over to the animated series if it happens. [00:30:41] Speaker A: Wow. Wow. So congratulations on that project. [00:30:44] Speaker B: I'm not sure how much of that is public during. [00:30:48] Speaker A: I will take all of that out of this. Don't even worry about that. That's you and I just talking. No, no, I'm asking another question. All of that. That's just you and me talking. That will not be in there. Okay, so the next thing I'm going to ask you. Let's see. Oh, how do you handle critiques, criticism, social media, or. Doesn't even matter. How do you handle that? Have you had it? Have you had a review that we were. That was bad? Has it ever happened to you? [00:31:13] Speaker B: Uh, okay. I've. I've had personal people come up to me and kind of hurt my feelings a little bit, but I haven't, in particular had any bad review. [00:31:27] Speaker A: That's awesome. May you never have them. [00:31:31] Speaker B: I know. I'm really grateful. I mean, I've had reviews that kind of gloss over me that it's like, hmm, okay, fine. I've had friends and family come up to me and say things like, you know, um, that costume makes you look really fat. [00:31:46] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. [00:31:47] Speaker B: It's like, whoa. [00:31:49] Speaker A: Hey, that was inappropriate, but thank you. Oh, yeah. My mother in law, man, she helped me lose weight after I had Maddie. She actually said, it's too bad you're so old, you'll never lose the weight. [00:32:00] Speaker B: Oh, geez, come on. [00:32:01] Speaker A: I was like, watch me. [00:32:03] Speaker B: You know, we've been in the business for a long time, and, yes, we have thick skins, but when it comes to the people who are closest to us who are saying things, that doesn't give you the leeway to say it. No, it still hurts. It still hurts. I can take a critical review from a paper any time, but when a personal friend or family comes up to me and says something, ouch. Really? But in that regard, social media wise, first of all, I am no longer on Facebook, okay? I'm on Facebook, but I'm not looking at it. Facebook became too much of a. [00:32:43] Speaker A: Shopping mall right now. [00:32:44] Speaker B: Too many things. That was my biggest thing. When I would scroll through Facebook, I was like, this ad doesn't apply to me. This ad. And I spent all of my time being like, block, block, block, block, block. Because too much shopping. Yes. This doesn't have anything to do with me. I I'm much more of an Instagram person now. Never a Twitter x person, whatever it is. [00:33:06] Speaker A: Me neither. [00:33:06] Speaker B: And. And tick tock. I feel like I'm in that generational gap that's like, what are these kids watching these? [00:33:12] Speaker A: Because you could tick tock your puppets and all that. [00:33:14] Speaker B: But how long can I do that for? [00:33:17] Speaker A: And I. And I don't even know, because I don't talk my tick either, because I'm older than you are. That fandangled stuff. Let's just put a poster up. [00:33:26] Speaker B: What are these kids watching these days? No, I'd rather say Instagram has been doing me just fine. [00:33:33] Speaker A: Okay. [00:33:33] Speaker B: And I've never had any bad reviews on any of my puppets, per se. I've had a couple of clients come back to me and say, I had one client who gave me this really interesting picture. It was a childhood drawing that they gave me to work off of, and I think that I gave it the best interpretation possible. I mean, like, down to the t, with the exception of one of the puppets had purple pupils. We're not talking purple eyes. Purple pupils, okay. And in my professional opinion, purple pupils would not come off as a puppet. So I gave them black pupils, like a standard puppet should have. And they came at. They came back at me after the delivery and were really upset that of all of the things that I ignored, the purple pupils really got to them, and they were incredibly upset. And they were this close to asking for a refund. And I was like, really? Everything else about these puppets were fantastic. And you really got up. You chose to be upset about the purple pupils. [00:34:37] Speaker A: I wonder if there's something about that. I don't know. [00:34:40] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:34:43] Speaker A: Does it affect your work moving forward? That's. I guess the question for people listening is when you do have those moments. [00:34:48] Speaker B: Well, moving forward, if somebody asks me to create something down to the very t, I mean, I will continue to ask questions throughout and give my professional opinion. But if they want the purple pupils, I will give them the purple pupils. [00:35:01] Speaker A: I think sometimes in voiceover, that happens, too. There was a thing two weeks ago, they wanted it so over the top, and I called that giving the client pink polka dots. I was like, okay, here are your pink polka dots. I don't ever want to listen to it, but, hey, give you exactly what you wanted. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Setting that boundary is very important, especially to not give them so much leeway that they can just give their input, because then they'll want more takes, more takes, more takes more takes, and then they'll never be able to decide or what they want ends up not being what you can give them. Yes. [00:35:34] Speaker A: I think it happens in all, any creative pursuit where we're not in our own room making stuff when we're not making our own things. Okay? Like, that's what the show is all about. Like, the freedom we have in so many ways. So imagine now if we're talking about, like, a commercial. You've got the entire. All the people from the business writing copy, and then you've got a maybe a marketing company also writing copy, and all these people fighting over this copy. And by the time we get it, it's not necessarily readable. But. But we have to do it exactly as written because there's, like, blood on the cutting room floor of the people that did all that creative work. But that's the negative side I see sometimes. But theater. Theater is such a lovely collaborative art because everybody's got a different piece. But I do think they're different. The way I structure myself is a little different. When I go into a room to work all by myself, it's a different feeling than when I'm going into rehearsal. [00:36:28] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:36:29] Speaker A: And everybody's there. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Vastly different. It's. Sometimes it's almost harder. [00:36:34] Speaker A: Oh, I think it is harder. I straight up think it is, which is sort of where this. This podcast appeared, because my thought was, man, there are days I have some roadblocks. Hmm. I wonder if other people have roadblocks. I'm gonna interview people and find out how they get through them, and then I'm gonna learn from that. Right? Yeah. When you are not creating and driving the bus and serenading everybody in downtown Seattle before they get on their planes, what do you love to do? [00:36:59] Speaker B: I love to cook with my wife. [00:37:04] Speaker A: Sweet. [00:37:05] Speaker B: Well, whether she's in the room or not in the room with me. But I do enjoy cooking, like, a lot. Like, I feel as though if I had the wherewithal if I was going to add another skill set into my repertoire, it would be to become a chef. [00:37:20] Speaker A: I interviewed a chef for the podcast very recently, and we talked about he goes to his room to make stuff. It's the fridge and the kitchen and the incredible. So it's interesting. I go, when you're not creating, what do you do? You're creating, which doesn't surprise me. I think there was nothing else I read recently. I don't remember exactly what it was. It might have been Austin Kleon who wrote go to your room and make stuff or. No, no. He wrote a book called show your work, another one called steal like an artist. And he said, when we have multiple creativity, things moving at the same time, they tend to feed upon each other and make them all better. Not that we're spinning and going crazy, but just it's nice to go a little bit from this to a little bit of that. Little bit of this, a little bit of that. And I noticed that you tend to do, from what I can pick up. Oh, yeah, very well. [00:38:06] Speaker B: Yeah, I will jump back and forth from all sorts of different things. I mean, unless I've got a deadline and I've got to really delve into something like, oh, gosh, my wife was just saying to me, like, you should play a video game and relax a little bit. I was like, my kind of video game is gonna take me off of my working list for the next month because I will delve into. Because of course I'm a role player, so I play a lot of rpg's, role playing games and such like that. You can't just pick up and put down an rpg. You gotta see it through to the end. [00:38:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. I'm that way with some books, too. I'm like, I'm gonna stop reading. It's two in the morning. I'm gonna stop. Yeah. Yes, yes. Let's see. What. Is there anything we haven't talked about that you would like to bring up, anything about your creative process? As part of the podcast? I'm going to have some videos of the puppets and lots of links and lots of photographs. [00:39:05] Speaker B: Ooh, wish. I wish I had video of some of the avenue Q stuff to send you, but, you know, there's, if you need me to send you an avenue queue. [00:39:13] Speaker A: Was Renton Civic or who did it? It was at Ren Civic Theater. [00:39:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it was written civic. [00:39:18] Speaker A: And do they have any archival footage? [00:39:20] Speaker B: I think I believe that they do. Or I've been told that there is archival footage. [00:39:24] Speaker A: As long as it's snippets. It doesn't break any copyrights. [00:39:27] Speaker B: Okay, I have. [00:39:28] Speaker A: As long as we don't like, you. [00:39:30] Speaker B: Know, I suppose for. If it's for advertising purposes of the theater, I'm sure Bill would. Wouldn't. [00:39:37] Speaker A: And I know Bill, too. You're right. Bill Hall's like, hey, Bill. [00:39:41] Speaker B: Hey, Bill. This could help advertise the theater. Can I have this finally? [00:39:44] Speaker A: Right? [00:39:45] Speaker B: That would be great. [00:39:46] Speaker A: I mean, thank you for coming on. It's a. It's such. It is a pleasure to get to interview you. I am so grateful for the puppets that I have that I play with. I can't wait to dive into the person you studied with or, you know, studied his work and dive into what they do as well, and just take a good, hard look at that and thank you. Thank you. Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it so much. [00:40:07] Speaker B: It's my absolute pleasure. Shawn, thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Feather in the cap, as far as I'm concerned. [00:40:14] Speaker A: Hey, everybody. Thanks for listening. To go to your room and make stuff the podcast for artists of any kind who want to make art by themselves. Be sure to subscribe to our podcast in all the places where you find podcasts, find us on social media. And if you ever have any artists you would like to see featured, please let us know. Now. Go to your room and make stuff.